Wednesday, September 13, 2006

Response To Critism By American Right

[As many of you complained that I did not provided any evidence to my wild and rambling accusation I have now elaborated to provide as much evidence as possible. If you are in doubt please contact me directly] Remember Im not the only one No other person in this discussion has provided me with evidence to support their arguments either.

Right! Firstly as some of you seem to be getting the wrong idea about me; I in no way supported or support Al-Quaida or the Iraq Regime. However I do believe strongly in the UN and the Basic Human Rights Charter.

As several of blogger have pointed out that Al-Quaida has not signed any human rights declaration and certainly has never followed any of it rules. This was the same reason given by Nazi germany to justify enforced labour and murdering of soviet prisoners:

An official justification used by the Germans for this policy was the fact that the Soviet Union had not signed the Geneva convention; this was not legally justifiable however as under article 82 of the Geneva Convention (1929) ( Hitler's quote can be obtained if needed)

It is true that countries in the middle east has a abysmal human rights record. Yet we are not in the middle east we are in the west. And the West should lead by example if it is to retain any credibility and be able to justify its actions to an international community.

As the The Angry American so graciously pointed out i have not been to Guantanamo. I was drawing my research from a recent United Nations report on the conditions in the prison. Here is the link

A few excerpts:

Article 2 (2) of the Convention states that: “No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.” The right to be free from torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment is a non-derogable right,
Reports indicate that the treatment of detainees since their arrests, and the conditions of their confinement, have had profound effects on the mental health of many of them. 103 The treatment and conditions include the capture and transfer of detainees to an undisclosed overseas location, sensory deprivation and other abusive treatment during transfer; detention in cages without proper sanitation and exposure to extreme temperatures; minimal exercise and hygiene; systematic use of coercive interrogation techniques; long periods of solitary confinement; cultural and religious harassment; denial of or severely delayed communication with family; and the uncertainty generated by the indeterminate nature of confinement and denial of access to independent tribunals. 104 These conditions have led in some instances to serious mental illness, over 350 acts of self-harm in 2003 alone, individual and mass suicide attempts and widespread, prolonged hunger strikes. 105
"that some of the techniques, in particular the use of dogs, exposure to extreme temperatures, sleep deprivation for several consecutive days and prolonged isolation were perceived as causing severe suffering."

A. Conclusions 83. International human rights law is applicable to the analysis of the situation of detainees in Guantánamo Bay. Indeed, human rights law applies at all times, even during situations of emergency and armed conflicts. .

That is my evidence, by a properly sanction UN report. America is bound to the UN and by the human rights convention. If we ignore the very declarations that guarantee our humanity how can we ever bring to justice others who commit the same crime? As many have you pointed out, its a lot worse in other places, but that does not mean that acceptable standard are being set here in the west. We must show to the world that our fight is just and that they are evil; if we descend into their tactics the line become blurred and we will risk losing the international support we so desperately need in this fight.

Lastly I apologise for the Cuban blog, writer block combined with a revolutionary movie are not the best of ideas! lol! If you wish I will alter or remove the blog.



Blogger The Angry American said...

I first would like to offer an apology if I was at first a bit of a jackass,but I would like to point out that many of these alleged toutures have not been proven. The U.N has never been granted full access to Gauntanamo bay,and niether has amnesty international,however the red cross has,and they have not reported any abuse. I would think a group that has actually seen the entire Gauntanamo bay would have better knowledge then two that have not. Also some of the abuse that the U.N. has claimed is that the torture consisted of force feeding hunger strikers thru a feeding tube. Now come on! Is it considered torture to put a feeding tube into someone who will starve themselves to death? If you went on a hunger strike in another country you were imprissioned in they would let you starve to death? More then likely yes they would, so what is so inhumane about saving their lives? I consider torture to be beatings,and thing of that nature,but there has only been 10 reports of guards being abusive,but there were over 440 reports of guards being attacked by prisoners during that same time period.

12:33 AM  
Blogger Bunchuk said...

Thank You For The Apology, like I said in the Sparks from the Anvil blog, I think we all fell strongly in our belief’s and I think it is hard for either side to come round to the others point of view.

Firstly from the UN report [found here>] It was concluded that torture had been used, “the techniques, in particular the use of dogs, exposure to extreme temperatures, sleep deprivation for several consecutive days and prolonged isolation were perceived as causing severe suffering." Now you have a valid point that the UN has not seen alll the prison; however If the inspectrors are allowed to see this but not other areas it make me even more worried about the area being shown. Obviously why would they need to be hidden if nothing disrespectable is going on.

Now I am not sure that the Red Cross has seen the entiity of american handywork. This quote was on the BBC website ‘The International Committee for the Red Cross (ICRC) has been demanding access to secret detention centres’.[]

And also found this from a recent speech from one of your senators richard J Durbin

“The Red Cross concluded that the use of those methods was "a form of torture."
The Red Cross concluded, “U.S. authorities have placed the internees in Guantanamo beyond the law.”

From this reports seem to indicate that it is worse in Guantanamo than some of the recent blogs let on. I would really appreciate a link to the report that show 10 attacks by guards please. I also believe force feeding isnt as bad as letting them die. evidently however some people disagree.

5:03 AM  
Blogger The Angry American said...

I actually got the informtion about the 10 incidents from the link you gave. Also the incidents that the U.N described “the techniques, in particular the use of dogs, exposure to extreme temperatures, sleep deprivation for several consecutive days and prolonged isolation were perceived as causing severe suffering." to me do not sound like torture. I mean several day of sleep many days two? Now two days could mean several consecutive days same goes for isolation They have not given any exact numbers,just guesses,and the use of dogs.Were any of the prisoners biten by those dogs? there is not one report that they were, so my guess is those dogs were simply used for intimidation. I would hardly consider that torure. There has been over 400 Visit to Gauntanamo bay by media outlets ,and 180 visits by Congressional representitives,and Durbin never said anything about abuse until ONE report by the Red Cross claimed torure those claims were made by prisoners,they were not witnessed by Red Cross members,but prisoner reports to the Red Cross.

8:25 PM  

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